[00:00:00] AB: No matter who you are or where you go, heading outside is always worth it. Welcome to Humans Outside where we’re using the Humans Outside 365 Challenge to build a life around spending time in nature while learning from fascinating outdoor minded guests. I’m Amy Bushatz. I’ve let curiosity be my guide as a journalist for 18 years, but life, including my husband’s war injuries, had burnt us out.
So we moved sight unseen to Alaska to see if a change of scenery and new focus on the outdoors was just the shift we needed. Since September, 2017, I’ve spent at least 20 consecutive minutes outside every single day, no matter what, to explore how nature can change my life. Ready to hear from experts and outdoor lovers who make heading into nature just a part of who they are while we work to do the same? Let’s go.
Here at Humans Outside, we focus on the practicalities of heading outside every day and give you the tools and help to build that outdoor habit. But of course, to do that, we lean on those who have worked to be experts on the practical steps it takes to make that happen, including people who focus on the basics and tools to get outside.
One of those is today’s guest Kristen Bor. At about the same time I first turned on HumansOutside.com back in 2014, Kristen was founding her own outdoor-focused website, Barefoot. She had been working in environmental policy in DC and left that to refocus on actually connecting with nature, not unlike what my family did when we moved sight-unseen to Alaska in 2016.
She now spends half the year living in her home in Utah, and half the year traveling through the US in her converted Sprinter camping van. Today, her website, Barefoot Theory is packed with checklists and help for the basics of getting outside. And for those who want to in on that awesome van life, video series, how tos and more on converting your own van.
And she’s joining us here to talk about how adventure life and normal life can meet. Kristen, welcome to Humans Outside.
[00:02:20] KB: Hey, thanks so much for having me.
[00:02:23] AB: Man. I am so excited to talk to you. Thank you for spending time with us today. Thank you for giving us your time and sharing your wisdom. This is going to be fantastic.
[00:02:33] KB: Yeah. I’m super excited to chat with you.
[00:02:35] AB: So we start all of our episodes imagining ourselves with our guests in their favorite outdoor space. Like we are not sitting in our individual podcast spots, but like we are somewhere outside having a chat. Where are we with you?
[00:02:51] KB: Oh, boy. I think probably one of the most memorable outdoor experiences I’ve had was watching the sunrise at the top of Mount Whitney at the end of trail hikes. So let’s imagine ourselves there.
[00:03:03] AB: Awesome. And it is always fun to take a break and have a little chat at the end of a long hike. So I’m here for it. Cool. Hopefully there are snacks. Okay. How did you become somebody who likes to go outside?
[00:03:17] KB: Yeah, I didn’t grow up doing outdoorsy things. I didn’t grow up in an outdoorsy family. And I went to the University of Puget Sound in Washington for college. It’s just a small school in Tacoma and had a pretty strong outdoor vibe. I didn’t really have an opportunity to do a lot of that kind of thing. In college. I was a chemistry major, so I spent a lot of time in the library and at the end of college, I was just really craving more meaningful experience outside.
And so that’s when I went on my first backpacking trip and I realized that it was going to be a way for me to get healthier and build confidence and have a lot more fun doing that kind of thing versus, city type activities that I was used to doing. So that’s how I was first introduced.
[00:04:04] AB: M y family and I lived in Tacoma, Washington for a little bit. So I’m super familiar with the area. My husband was stationed there at Joint Base Lewis McChord. Yeah. So, love that region. And I know exactly the vibe you’re talking about. It’s a very like fleece vest.
How many exactly do you own and what is the quality continuum on there? So how did van living and adventuring become a part of your life? How do you get from — I have this outdoor vibe, to — I think I’ll live in a van part of the year.
[00:04:42] KB: Yeah. In my early thirties, I found myself living in Washington, DC. After grad school, I got a fellowship that took me there. I was working on the Hill in Congress on environmental policy. And after three years, it was never really my plan to end up there. But after three years there, I sorta decided that I wanted to move back west. I grew up in Idaho and wanted to be closer to the mountains and outdoor activities. And that’s when I started researching on the internet different career paths that would allow me to travel and spend more time outside doing what I loved and stumbled on blog posts that talked about blogging as a career.
So I decided to quit my job. I moved back west and started my website and that is sort of when I dove in head first into just making the outdoors part of my daily life, versus something that I just did maybe one day a week on the weekend.
[00:05:43] AB: I think we must’ve read the same blog post.
[00:05:46] KB: Yeah.
[00:05:47] AB: Y ou were braver than I on that. And I, cause I did not quit my full-time job. I thought I could do all of this on the side and not have it be my primary focus. So I love that you took the leap and have been so successful doing that.
It’s really inspiring. Yeah. Okay. Specifically, we are going to talk today about van life and how it can be a part of your outdoor habit when you are leading an otherwise traditional lifestyle. So nine to five job, kids in sports, living in a city or a typical town, suburb, because that’s not what you do, but it is what you help people do.
So start by giving us a definition here. When we say ‘van life,’ what do we mean?
[00:06:38] KB: I think there’s different ways that people define it, but for me, I think it means anyone who lives or travels in a van. It could be part-time, full time, in a city, out in nature. I think everybody has the opportunity to define what van life looks like for them.
W e have a house in Salt Lake. We spend winters here and then we spend, six to eight months a year outside the snow season living and traveling in our van. I think there’s like the purists who are like — no, I live in my van. I don’t have a house I’m full blown all in.
And then there’s people who use their vans for the weekend. So I don’t think there’s really a definition that you have to abide by to quote unquote, do van
[00:07:20] AB: life.
And I would imagine a lot of these practicalities depend on where you call home what the temperature is outside for sure.
Jobs, kids the whole nine yards. So there’s like a whole continuum, but one of the things we’re really focusing on this season on Humans Outside is nature accessibility. And that outdoors can be wherever you are. Even if you are somewhere like a city. And I’m excited to dig into how this is a part of that.
I personally follow approximately a bajillion Vanlife Instagram pages. This is like a very picturesque, inspirational thing. People really like the idea. And I’m wondering if you have any thoughts on where that stems from? Like why is this such an attractive idea to people?
[00:08:08] KB: I think it’s living outside the confines of conventional living. And I think with the pandemic, the lifestyle has really blown up. As people realize that they can work remote, they can work from anywhere. All they need is an internet connection. And the van puts nature at your doorstep. For me, it’s really appealing because I just know how much I benefit from being outdoors.
Whether that’s going on a hike or just sitting and watching the sunset or reading a book outside, just that fresh air does something for my spirit that I just don’t get when I’m home inside my house all the time. And so for me, the appeal has just been the accessibility to the adventure and just the mental and physical benefits of spending so much time outside.
[00:09:00] AB: So we have a van, we call it the Vanimal. It’s not a Looker. Most of the time, cause we are very much weekend van people, it’s negative 15 degrees outside my house right now. So really? Yeah. So it’s not the kind of place do you want to live in a van at the moment.
Okay, so we have a 1997 Ford Coachmen. It is the Vanimal. I ran a contest. Listeners will remember, I asked for their suggestions on van names. And I will tell you if it had occurred to me to name the van, Kevin, after the bird in Up, I would have done that, but it did not.
So it is Vanimal. Which conveniently had a licensed tag available. So here we are. And I love camping in it because it’s very, we’re otherwise tent campers. It extends our season and I feel like I am both protected, but also in nature in a way that I don’t feel — when I’m in a tent, I feel much more vulnerable.
[00:10:03] KB: I think that’s super accurate. Whether it’s weather or wildlife, the van and the four walls definitely provide a sense of security and the fact that you can get up in the driver’s seat and drive away in the matter of seconds versus, having to pack down your whole camp and all that.
I definitely think it makes you feel safer and less vulnerable than you might if you’re just camping out in the woods somewhere.
[00:10:37] AB: I want to mention that not everybody can afford a van, but we’ll talk about this a little bit later. So we’ll get to that in a second, but I just want to state that up front.
Okay. So the practicalities of life, as we’ve mentioned, keep most people from just having a nomadic lifestyle. But I also think that people can create the life and ideal they want. It’s just maybe not where they are, right this second. So how can having a van be a part of your regular life?
How can we make this sort of meet in the middle? Like somewhere between I do this all the time and I do this not at all.
[00:11:15] KB: I think there’s a number of ways to make that work. Like you said, people who have kids and a nine to five job, I think having a van or a vehicle that you can sleep in, certainly makes getting away on the weekends so much easier, because all you gotta do is throw your clothes and some food in the van, and you can take off, versus packing and unpacking.
And all the prep that goes into a camping trip, like a lot of that’s really minimized when you’re traveling in a van. So that’s one advantage. And I think families that like to get away every weekend, it’s a really convenient way to do that. I think that people like me who like having the stability of a home base certain times of year, but also like to travel, you can rent out a room in your house to help cover your costs. Or a lot of people will Airbnb their house during the times that they’re not home to make it more financially sustainable.
So I think there’s like creative ways to allow you to have a home base while still getting out there. And then there’s of course the people who make it work and have found remote careers. And I think, especially now there’s just so much more flexibility, even for people who do have a nine to five job where employers are realizing that people don’t want to work in an office.
And, the productivity has actually increased for a lot of people working from home. And it doesn’t really matter where home is, if that’s a van or a n actual house, as long as the work’s getting done. I think a lot of employers are realizing that people’s happiness also contributes to a happy workplace.
[00:12:53] AB: Yeah. I think it’s a really fantastic point. So what you’re saying is think outside the box a little bit. We think about, and I think that what you just said about the pandemic changing our focus on that is really true. I’ve worked from home for 11 years and so working from home is no big deal to me.
And it blew the mind of so many people in my full-time job company who were like, okay guys, we’re going to work from home now. Here’s how we do it. And I had to stop and remember that this isn’t everybody’s normal lifestyle. It really isn’t. But now it is and so we have this fantastic opportunity to say — okay, pandemic, zero star experience.
But there are some good things that we learned through it. Some experiences that we had that we can take and use to reshape how we view our everyday lives. And maybe one of those is that we can insert a little bit of extra adventure into our lives.
And that maybe we really like having our kids in some sports, but all of the sports that we have wrapped ourselves into and all of these commitments, maybe all of them aren’t necessary. Maybe there’s a way to have a meet in the middle where we do things outside as a family that we enjoy, or we sign our kids up for things that we can do as a group after they learn how, or we all sign up for lessons.
That’s what we’re doing here. I am a miserable skier, very bad at it. But it is something to do in the winter time. And so we’re all taking Nordic ski lessons this year so that we can all Nordic ski together. And so that I do not perpetually fall into a snowbank, which is the inevitability.
It’s quite cold right now. So that’s a detractor, but we’ll move past it. It won’t last forever. I’m confident. And then you also noted the convenience of the van which is something that I’ve really learned to appreciate. Now, some people have RVs, they already know about this but not me.
Never had really had one. And so I was used to putting stuff in bins and then taking things out of bins and then, repacking them in the car. Guess what, if it’s all in the van, it’s ready to go and then you drive away and that is beautiful.
[00:15:09] KB: I think, especially with like your cooking stuff, that’s, the spatulas, spoons and the pots and the pans and the knives, just like having that all in there versus having to carry it in and out of your kitchen every week is like definitely one of the big perks for packing convenience.
[00:15:26] AB: Yeah. Although now that we’re talking about it, it has occurred to me while we’re having this discussion that I have in my van some cooking things that maybe shouldn’t be frozen solid, but now are, and I’m feeling a little bit afraid to go in there and see what’s happened to that oil and that can, but, we’ll update you guys on if it exploded or not. I don’t know if there’s soda in the fridge, not anymore.
Hey humans, did you know, you can officially join the Humans Outside 365 challenge and score some really cool and exclusive challenge swag, including a finisher medal and decal on HumansOutside.com/challenge? You’ll also get an outdoor challenge guide written by me for you, an exclusive challenge tracker and insider info all year long.
You don’t want to be left out of this. There is never a wrong time to join the Humans Outside 365 Challenge. So get going, join it today. Go to HumansOutside.com/challenge to learn more. Now back to the show.
Speaking of RVs, how is van life different than a camper or RV? Or is it, we categorize them different ways. So is it different?
[00:16:52] KB: Yeah, I think it’s definitely different and there’s trade offs. So I think the difference between a van and RV is like living comfort and space versus ability to get further off the grid and flexibility. So a van is going to be less living space, more time outside versus in the van. Not as many amenities. Maybe you’re not going to have a shower and a toilet in your van. Maybe your van is going to have a really simple setup, but because of its size, you’re able to get further away from the crowds. Further off the grid. You can go down that dirt road, not necessarily knowing where it’s going to end up. Whereas, if you have a bigger RV, obviously your living space is going to be a lot more plush and comfortable and spacious. You might be able to do yoga inside your RV, where you certainly probably won’t be able to do yoga inside a van.
You might have a shower and a toilet and like a full-blown kitchen inside your RV, but when it comes to being able to explore and go find campsites that are further away from the crowds, you’re going to be more limited. I think it’s just a matter of choosing what your priorities are and, finding something that matches that.
[00:18:06] AB: Yeah. That’s that accessibility piece, in particular accessibility of spaces to go, is something that we’ve really appreciated about having our van, that we can just pull off on the side of whatever. And I know that’s an out West thing. That’s an Alaska thing. If you’re in the Northeast, maybe you don’t just park in the middle of wherever all the time.
[00:18:28] KB: Yeah. Yeah. It’s definitely different on the east coast. We were out there last year and yeah. Spent a lot more money on paid campgrounds. There’s some free public lands, but it’s definitely not as vast as it is out west. So it’s a different experience.
[00:18:44] AB: M ost people probably have not been here to Alaska, but we have a lot of Bureau of Land Management, BLM lands.
[00:18:51] KB: And we have a lot of state lands where you’re alleging. Camp, however you please. And that means for, for a lot, if you don’t mind a little road noise, you literally pull off the side of the highway and camp. And so that can be very scenic, but also a little loud, but it’s, it makes it so that I, we can get in our van and drive wherever we want and when we’re done driving, that’s where we, that’s where we camp.
Yeah. And that’s a pretty, pretty fantastic fantastic thing. No worries about hookups or pulling in, or having to have space. It’s, it’s nice if it’s level let’s put it that way, but
yeah, for sure.
[00:19:30] AB: But other than that, like the considerations are minor. Okay. So we just, we talked earlier about the cost of owning a van.
So I want to come back to that. Vans can be, however much you’re thinking about how much a van might cost, add some. I have seen people driving these rigs through Alaska and, it’s got the name brand on it and I’ll pull it up. And holy cats bananas, we’re talking the price of my house or more for some of these, adventure rig would be not too generous of a term.
Just really incredible vehicles that are so expensive. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Okay. That’s the extreme, I hope. And then there’s the Vanimal which is on the lower end. It’s a 1997. Not worth a lot of money. T he guy sold it for way less than he could have. He just based on the blue book. And guess what? The blue book on a 1997 Ford is five grand. I would say that’s probably the lower end. What’s the advice for keeping the investment low?
[00:20:40] KB: Yeah. So the range is huge. I think on the high end, it’s a 4×4 sprinter converted by a professional company who’s been in business for a long time and a van that’s completely self-contained, off grid capable, never have to plug in, can go forever with limited amenities needed from the outside world. On the lower end of the price scale something that’s a little bit older, something that’s going to be self converted or bought, already converted by somebody else.
But yeah, there’s a number of ways to keep your costs down. One of the girls on my team at Bearfoot Theory, she has a van. It’s a Ford Econoline. I think it’s like a 1998. It has 250,000 miles on it. And she bought it for super cheap. She did the conversion herself, and she’s been on the road for the last year with very few problems and just loving life and the flexibility and the financial freedom it’s afforded.
If you spend $200,000 on a van and you can’t really afford that, then life’s not going to be very free feeling, then you’re going to have the burden of the payments or, feeling like you went into debt to live this lifestyle. And that’s not really the point. So I think finding a van and like being realistic about your budget and realizing that it’s not about the van, it’s about the adventures that the van affords..
I think it’s really about just the mindset, realizing that you’re getting this van because you want to hike and you want to camp in cool places and you want to meet cool people and just do things different, versus I need the best van, because really you don’t spend that much time in the van.
You drive the van, you sleep in the van, and otherwise you’re outside. So just adopting that mindset that it’s not necessarily about the vehicle.
[00:22:35] AB: Yeah. Yeah, that’s really good point. Because as you mentioned with RVs, they are a lot bigger. And so you really, they really can be a house on wheels, right?
Like you’re spending time in the RV, but when you’re in the van, it’s too small. So when you have more than one person in the van, holy cats, right? Yeah. It’s really small. We get four people and the dogs and we are getting out of the van now. Thank you. Now, and then of course, on the flip side, when it’s just me in the van, I’m like, oh, the space, right?
So you are outside a lot. You are doing whatever you can be doing to not be in the van because it is such a small space. And it’s nice if the bed is comfortable. And it’s wonderful if everything has a home inside the van so things don’t fall on your head while you’re driving. But other than that, like it’s a means of transportation and a bedroom.
[00:23:32] KB: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s spot on. So yeah, I think like for the Transits and the ProMasters are going to be cheaper than the Sprinter, those are like the three like modern vans that are very popular. I f you’re willing to build it out yourself and you’re willing to source materials that are maybe used or just less expensive, like you can save a lot of money that way. When it comes to building out yourself versus hiring somebody, you really have to ask yourself, are you going to enjoy this process? And be honest about your skillset. People learn how to build vans from scratch, just watching YouTube.
So if you have the patience and the time I think that’s, a great route. Yeah. I didn’t build my van myself, so I can’t speak to it, but I imagine it’s a very rewarding process when you’re all done. And you’re on the road with something that you built with your own two hands that has to be a pretty great feeling.
[00:24:24] AB: Yeah. And we did something just like our personal experience. We did something in between where we, our van was a converted, like a camper van to start with. That’s what it was designed for. But it needed some help and it needed some updating the windows were leaking and the siding inside was rotten.
And it just like the, oh gosh, the curtains – not good when you have leaky windows and it sits for a long time. So it smelled weird, all these things. You mentioned earlier how your van probably doesn’t have a toilet. Ours had a toilet that we took out because I was like, this is a very small space and that is in it.
So we removed that and made that into a storage area. Because I could imagine having that be a convenience and there have been times of wishing we had a toilet in there. But on the flip side I was like, do I really want to have a toilet in here and have that be the solution to this problem, because that’s going to be a lot of people in here with one person on a toilet.
[00:25:37] KB: We have a foldable toilet, it’s called the Go Anywhere toilet. It uses bags. Before the pandemic, it was fine. Cause it was like a once in a while thing. But yeah, once the pandemic happened, we were using it a lot more. The bags were expensive. It’s not very eco-friendly. It’s been okay, but we’re considering other options at this point.
Just to make it so we’re not so reliant on public facilities that we don’t really want to use as much now.
[00:26:06] AB: Such a good point. So lots of considerations there, but when you stopped to have these considerations, like you stopped to think about this stuff right now, whatever you are driving and whatever you have decided to use is your own.
Like you’ve made a personal investment in that. The other thing I would have mentioned is people, if you’re shopping for a van, you at some point have looked at volkswagen. And you might be thinking to yourself self, this is what I picture in my brain when I think about a camping van from when I was kid or whatever.
But Volkswagens are not necessarily the best investment for most camping van people. Do you find that to be true?
[00:26:46] KB: Yes. I think If you’re going to buy a Volkswagen, I would recommend being mechanical because things go wrong because they’re older and finicky. And if you aren’t mechanical, it’s, you’re just going to spend a lot of time having other people fix the things that go wrong.
So you want to be able to fix some things yourself. Linda, who also works with me, her and her husband drove a Volkswagen van to the bottom of South America. So they are awesome, but her husband, he knows how to fix things and is really familiar with the engine and how it all works.
Yeah, I think that if you’re mechanical, they can be a good option, but just be ready to need to troubleshoot things. The parts aren’t readily available and they’re also expensive, for how.
[00:27:43] AB: Yeah. It’s, you’re paying for having a Volkswagen, it’ s like having an older Range Rover. It’s not about the vehicle though. I’m going to get emails now from Range Rover lovers. It’s more about the hobby and that this is the thing you identify with and love and that’s okay. If that’s your view, awesome.
[00:27:59] KB: Volkswagen definitely has a cult following.
[00:28:02] AB: But if you’re just getting involved, maybe move to something that’s a little bit more affordable and not going to break as often, especially if you’re me and not mechanical at all. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Can you give us three or four tips for people who want to get started with using a camper van, but maybe don’t know what to do?
Yeah, sure. I think the first thing that’s really important is just getting as educated as you can about what you want. On my website, we have more than 50 blog posts that kind of go through each step of the process from choosing the vehicle, DIY versus hiring a professional conversion company.
Do you need a bathroom? What kind of bed do you want? So there’s just so many decisions to make. And I think the more you read up, the more YouTube videos you watch, just the more familiar you get with your own needs and priorities, the more likely you’re going to end up with the right van.
I’m actually on my second van. So the first van that I got, I was wooed by some pretty photos on the internet of a particular conversion company. I didn’t really do a ton of research into what I wanted. I ended up with a convertible bed and a full indoor bathroom with a shower and 30,000 miles into that van, it was really clear that layout and the things that I thought were my priorities were not actually my priorities. So I sold that and got the van that I have now, which doesn’t have a shower. It has a platform bed that we don’t have to make and put away every day and more dedicated place for me to work since I work full time when I’m on the road.
[00:29:48] KB: So just getting really familiar with what you actually want and need, I think is just so important. I also recommend if you do buy a van new or even a used, buy like a cargo van that hasn’t been converted yet. I think it’s a really good idea to just put an air mattress in there and a cooler, take a few trips with your gear.
They don’t have to be long, but just using the van and sleeping in it and seeing, what you think that you need once you’re out there using it, before you actually build it out, and then you can tape out the floor. So okay, this is where the bed’s going to go.
Kind of like you would, if you were building a house to just really draw it out, but it just helps to use the van. If you can, before it’s actually converted to get a sense of how you’re using the space and, just being out there I think is helpful.
I think going to, there’s so many different van events. Now we put on our own event, it’s called Open Roads Fest. We haven’t been able to do it the last two years because of COVID, but we’re bringing it back. Next year it’ll be in July. Hopefully, we’re just waiting to confirm the dates, but you can find that website it’s openroadsfest.com, to see what it was like in the past, but we have workshops and lots of outdoor activities and vendors and van tours.
And it’s just like a really fun way to get involved with the community and see a lot of van builds and conversions before you do your own. At our event in 2019, we had about, I want to say about 80 tent campers who came to learn and mingle with the community before investing in their own vans. I think doing something like that is super helpful and, we have our event, but there’s tons of other events.
Ours is in Idaho, but they’re all over the country. So I would definitely recommend going to some of those, if you have an option to. Those are probably my three big tips for doing research before you take the plunge.
[00:31:52] AB: Cool. Thank you so much for for doing that. And I think a van party would be fantastic. That sounds like a lot of fun.
Okay. For our last but not least, if you would talk to us a little bit about your favorite and maybe most essential outdoor gear, might be the same thing might not, something that you love can’t live without.
[00:32:12] KB: I think the van itself was probably my favorite. I don’t know if that qualifies.
[00:32:16] AB: It makes sense.
[00:32:19] KB: But yeah, as far as gear inside the van that we use a lot, I would say my camp chairs. We have the Eno chairs, which are super comfortable and lightweight and they pack down small. So we use those every day in our van.
I think having a good quality jacket, you really have to pare down your clothing to the essentials and things that are really functional and that you can wear in different occasions. I have in Arc’teryx, I think it’s called the Atom LT jacket. It’s like my favorite jacket. I can wear it hiking, around the campfire. So that’s something that I use every day in the van and yeah, it’s just been a really functional item of clothing. But yeah, I have a ton of gear lists on my website as well. I have a clothing packing list and all my favorite stuff, but those are probably two of the things that I use the most.
[00:33:13] AB: Yeah. And of course people can find your website at Bearfoot Theory. Bearfoot, like a bear, like the animal. Like the kind of foot you don’t want to see when you’re out in a village.
Very last thing. If we’re going to walk out of this imagining ourselves with you in your most favorite outdoor moment,where are we and what are we doing?
Boy, it’s so hard because there’s just so many beautiful places to explore. I think the pandemic certainly has helped me. So I haven’t traveled abroad in quite a long time actually, because I’ve had the van and it makes it so easy to travel domestically. And I think it’s easy to see all the pictures online and on Instagram of people jet setting all over the world and feel that itch to — oh, I’ve got to get abroad, but the van has made me realize just how many amazing and beautiful places there are in this country.
But I would say that a couple of my favorite places to be in the van — I really like Colorado. There’s just so much public land there. And we spent about six weeks in Southwest Colorado this fall. That was amazing. Just beautiful mountains, beautiful colors. And yeah, that’s probably one of my favorite places.
And then of course I grew up in Idaho, so I think there’s some really special places in Idaho that I really enjoy doing van life at as well.
Awesome. Kristen, thank you so much for joining us on Humans Outside today. I really appreciate this deep dive into how to do vans.
You’re welcome. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.
And if anybody has questions, feel free to reach out on Instagram or on my website. We do our best to respond to everybody. And, We’re here to help and be a resource for people.
Awesome. And we’ll have links to all of those things in the show notes for everybody. Thank you so much.
[00:35:21] KB: Yeah. Thank you. Have a great day.
[00:35:26] AB: Thanks so much for listening to this week’s episode of Humans Outside. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, give us a little love and leave a rating and review to make it easier for others to find the podcasts too. What you say matters. It really truly does make a difference. And until next time, we’ll see you out there.
