Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.
The following is an edited transcript of this episode of Humans Outside.
Amy Bushatz: You know that feeling you get when you spend even a little bit of time outside? No matter how challenging it is to get out there, spending time in nature is always worth it. I’m your host, Amy Bushatz and this is another episode of Humans Outside. Join me as we hear from fascinating outdoor minded guests and use the Humans Outside 365 Challenge to push us outside daily. Ready to hear from experts and outdoor lovers who make heading into nature just a part of who they are, while we work to do the same? Let’s go.
Healthcare workers and or traveling physical therapists can take on short term contracts just long enough to explore a new location top to bottom while also working a regular, in- person job. The gigs offer freedom to travel and explore while also eliminating the need to both live and work out of your van or travel trailer. I mean, I love my vanimal, but I wouldn’t want to spend all of my sleeping and working hours in there. As you might imagine, Alaska is a magnet for these temporary traveling healthcare professionals who want a chance to see the state over the summer. And I had no idea this was even a thing until I met today’s guests, Hailey and TR Jamar, both ultra runners- I ran with them and what was honestly a surprising number of other travel PTs during my 50 mile ultra marathon in 2022. And I’ve been following their adventures around the U. S. ever since. TR is a doctor of physical therapy and Hailey is an occupational therapist. And they’ve got me wondering, what’s it like to work short term in a place and know you’ve only got so long to see all the outdoors around it? Have they ever been tempted to stay put? Is this a lifestyle they recommend for others? And of course, they’re here to answer the questions and more.
Haley and TR, welcome to Humans Outside.
Hailey Jamar: Thank you for having us. We’re glad to be here.
TR Jamar: Yeah, absolutely. Looking forward to it.
Amy Bushatz: All right. So, you know, we start all of our episodes imagining ourselves in our guests favorite outdoor space. So were that true? where are we hanging outside with you today?
Hailey Jamar: Let’s see. No specific place on a map. I’d say we are in the middle of a trail run out in the woods. Are we halfway on a ridge or are we all the way at the summit?
TR Jamar: Yeah, I’d say our favorite place is, or my favorite place anyway, would be on a ridge, definitely. When we can kind of start to look out into the horizon and kind of see where we’ve come from, but at the same time we can still see all the different places where we can go today, or we can go next time.
I mean for us, that’s really truly a place where we go to and that’s our spiritual home. That’s just so many things for us. It’s definitely our, our favorite place to be.
Hailey Jamar: It’s our spot.
Amy Bushatz: Awesome. Glad to be there with you. A nd where are you actually located right now? Because though I am inside my podcast closet, I’m looking at you- you are outside beautiful somewhere. Beautiful.
Hailey Jamar: We are currently in Paonia, Colorado, where we just started a new contract two weeks ago.
TR Jamar: . We’ve been here about two weeks. Uh, Western Colorado, small little hippie town at the base of some mountains. So we are excited to be here and yeah, it’s been beautiful. Nice sunny days warming up into about the eighties. Unfortunately, we were working all day today, so we didn’t get to get outside much. So here we are.
Amy Bushatz: Dang it. Okay. So, how did you both become humans who like to go outside? Hailey, go first. Tell me your story.
Hailey Jamar: I grew up out in the country, so as a kid, it was always kind of the, you know, we’ll go out and play, let us know when dinner’s ready kind of thing. So, you know, loved being outside and then both of us, I think, and I won’t speak for you, but as kind of middle school, high school, we’re big into team sports.
So then, you’re kind of inside all the time, you know, you’re in the gym, you’re at practice, whatever, but even through that time, love spending summers out at the lake, at the river, that kind of thing. But then it wasn’t until you kind of are past all of those, you know, where you have to be inside somewhere where you get to truly choose and find that you get to go where you want to go.
And just kind of the more we got to see and explore and live different places, the more we realized outside is just, that’s who we are at this point. It’s where we prefer to be.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah. Yeah. What about you, TR?.
TR Jamar: Yeah, Yeah, I mean, I think she said it very well. grew up in the country, you know, I was actually an only child. so to have fun, you had to go outside like a big basketball hoop outside and have a little, you know, dirt bikes would ride around out in the pasture. My dad would, uh, pull me around in the truck when it snowed on a knee board, you know, so we always got outside on fun things like that.
But, yeah, absolutely. I think she kind of nailed it on the head when she kept saying we because I think we have kind of discovered our love and passion for the outdoors together. Probably that got multiplied when we were in Texas, when we really found trail running. And so for us, trail running is more about just exploring outside than it is about the running and physical activity.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah. Yeah. I love to play running tourist, like destination running.
Hailey Jamar: The best way to see a place is on foot.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah. And you just get it done faster if you’re running. Efficient.
Hailey Jamar: That’s true. Very true.
Amy Bushatz: Hailey, you’re from Arkansas, right? TR, where are you from? I was going to guess Arkansas until you said snow,
TR Jamar: Oh yeah, Arkansas as well. Actually the same, the same small town, yeah, Berryville, Arkansas up in the northwest corner.
Amy Bushatz: All right. All right. Very cool. And you guys, I mentioned this in the introduction, but we know each other from running here in Alaska, where you guys were on a contract at, gosh, summer of 2020. I mean, what year is this? Right. So summer of 22? Right.
TR Jamar: Yes We were there from May, from May until November in Alaska
Amy Bushatz: Yeah, nice. Long time. Cause I ran into you guys, I think the last time I saw you, we were all skiing.
Hailey Jamar: Yeah was our last day in Alaska I think when we saw you out at Hatcher Pass.
Amy Bushatz: That’s right. That was so fun because I, I spotted you as I was coming up and I, I think I recognize TR’s mustache.
TR Jamar: I’m glad you said you recognize us for a physical feature of ourselves and not just that we looked like we had no idea what we were doing. We were absolutely just trying to get hang of it.
Hailey Jamar: Just winging it.
Amy Bushatz: I remember being knowing that because you had told me that and being wildly impressed that you were upright which I was definitely not when I was first on skis, at, like, how you were coming down a hill without falling down was a very wild thing in my world. So,
TR Jamar: You caught us at a good
Hailey Jamar: Yeah,
Amy Bushatz: Yeah yeah, okay, so, you guys are on Instagram and in general use the tagline Tie Dye Travelers. I would love to know more about that, explain that, that title.
Hailey Jamar: Yeah so tie dye is something that means a whole, whole lot to us and has kind of become who we are, much more than just a fashion trend that’s been brought back recently. I had a brother, Madison, who passed away when he was only 24. I was 20 at the time. And he was an old hippie soul. He loved tie dye. He had a Volkswagen bus, um, that he bought off eBay, and that was his little hippie mobile. And so, when he passed away, we just kind of, that’s our way of honoring him and keeping him with us. And, you know, losing him, it was just such a reminder, and just a, kind of a slap in the face life lesson of, life is so short, and we don’t know how many days we’re gonna be here.
So, It’s just kind of our way of keeping him with us and remembering to make the most out of every single day, every single trip, every single contract, because we don’t know what we’re going to get. So that’s just, that’s kind of where it came from. It’s just part of who we are and how we kind of celebrate him and then he’s inspired us to live the way that we live.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah, yeah. I love that and I love that because, in part because that’s what we’re really talking about today is making the most of wherever you are. And so you guys have, are really inspiring on that, and of course, I mentioned that you are both traveling PTs. And I’ve met… now an amazing number of traveling PTs, which I didn’t even know was a thing, as I mentioned, until we were, I think, on Res Pass together.
And I realized there was like six or seven of y’all out there. And my mind was a little bit blown, but then also I was like, you know what? If I hurt myself, I’m good. So don’t think that didn’t occur to me because it did. So is this always been a thing or did I miss it?
Hailey Jamar: You know, we actually tried to Google that today- how long has it been around? and we couldn’t find a definitive answer. We didn’t know about it until I was in school. When I first learned about it and like in grad school in occupational therapy school. And then they start talking about like, you can go anywhere and you can work and you can only be there a few months at a time.
I’m like, hold on, this sounds incredible. So I don’t know exactly how long it’s been around, but we’ve encountered other coworkers that have told us that, Oh, I’ve been doing travel for 15, 20 years. So I think it’s definitely grown in popularity more recently. I don’t know if that kind of goes hand in hand with the boom of van life and people living more on the go in general, but yeah, we were stoked when we found out that that was an option.
TR Jamar: Yeah. And it just kind of opens up a lot of opportunities, for us as therapists to work in a lot of different settings and a lot of different locations. There’s a lot of rural places, they just kind of need some help and they have a hard time filling those positions often, which works out perfectly for us. Cause that’s exactly where we want to be. You know, we don’t want to be in a city somewhere, we want to be somewhere close to the things outside that we want to be able to do. So yeah, it’s kind of just fell right in line for us.
Amy Bushatz: That’s rad. I think the term used is travelers. Am I making that, this terminology up? That’s the right term?
Hailey Jamar: You got it. Yeah.
Amy Bushatz: Yes. How long have you been travelers?
Hailey Jamar: Two years now, so.
TR Jamar: Just hit two years.
Hailey Jamar: Yeah, just hit the two year mark. So I graduated occupational therapy school in 2016 and then he was going back to school, finishing, PT school after being out of the Navy. So as I was finishing school and learned about it, and then we moved to Texas together. And first we just kind of knew like that’s going to be the plan, you know, that’s the life for us. As soon as you finish school, we’ll just hit the road.
And, and we didn’t know exactly what that would look like. We didn’t know right away that that would be in an RV, rolling down the road to the next spot right away. But when we first moved to Texas together, we got a one bedroom apartment, you know, neat place right on the river. We’re throwing all this money out the window on rent and very quickly realize like this is not it this there’s got to be something that makes more sense. So we immediately just started looking for RVs and then that has just made this experience so much easier and so much- you know, a lot of travelers, some, a lot, a big handful do travel in RVs or vans or that kind of thing. But a lot of people, they just find temporary housing, they’ll use Airbnb or Furnished Finder or there’s other ways, but we’re able to save a lot more money and then have, you know, just be where exactly where we want to be and not be confined to kind of the actual housing options. So it’s worked for us.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah. Yeah. And I know you are going to have a baby in you going to keep up the RV life, with the, kid or are you going to transition?
TR Jamar: Yeah, absolutely. our plan is to go ahead and keep traveling until said baby will start kindergarten. So we got the five year plan, so we’re kind of on the clock now. Our whole thing with travel therapy, all the different places we’ve gone, we kind of have always looked at through the lens of, is this a place we could eventually settle? You know, wait, all the pros and cons.
So we’re always looking at places like that. so now we have, the clock is ticking. We have five years to figure out what that is. But just kind of to expand upon what Hailey was talking about earlier, just to kind of set up our lives, we’ve always tried to look ahead and to figure out things a little bit ahead of time, that are going to allow us to do the things that we want to do with the least amount of barriers. So when we got our RV that we currently have we went ahead it was a couple years ago now, but we got it with a bunk room with the thought of having children at some point. And they’re gonna need somewhere to go, you know, I know they’re not big but we got to put them somewhere while we travel down the road.
Amy Bushatz: They come with an unbelievable amount of stuff. It’s just, it, you might find, the baby takes up, I don’t know, two feet, but the stuff takes up all of the, the bunk bed. The whole thing.
Hailey Jamar: Try our best to keep that to a minimal, but I know that’ll be an ongoing challenge.
TR Jamar: Yeah, right now our bunk room has been occupied as a gear closet primarily, so we’re gonna have to shift and sort some things around, definitely.
Hailey Jamar: For sure.
Amy Bushatz: I feel like the gear, that’s gonna change, stay the same. It’s just gonna be different gear. That’s my prediction.
Hailey Jamar: True But yeah, both of us, you know, we both grew up in Arkansas and we both knew very early on that we love being from there, we love visiting family there, but that is not where we want to be and to raise our kids. So, there’s not mountains or ocean or much to explore. to that extent, there’s just so much elsewhere.
So we don’t know where we want that forever home to be. And that’s always what we’ve said is that we don’t, we’ve never felt the need to settle down geographically until a kid starts kindergarten. Cause we don’t want them to move after starting school. So. Yeah, until very recently, we didn’t know when that might be and just kind of had a infinite timeline. But now, like you said, we’re on the clock. So we got five years to find out where, where we want to plan it.
Amy Bushatz: Have you ever been tempted to stay somewhere so far? And do you have a favorite location? And it’s, if you say Alaska, I won’t tell anyone. It’s okay.
TR Jamar: We absolutely have a favorite location and it is Alaska for sure. We loved our time in Alaska and we want to, we want to travel back there again, actually, and spend some more time just to see all the seasons. I wouldn’t say that we’ve been tempted to actually stay, just because we kind of have been sticking with our plan. We want to see as much as possible, so we’re, we’re pretty set on that for now. But yeah, I mean everywhere we’ve gone, we’ve definitely found some things that we really love about it. We always mention wanting to go back to all those places.
Hailey Jamar: Most travel therapy contracts tend to be 13 weeks, which is about three months in length, and so that gives you the chance to you know, be there long enough, but get onto the next place, which is what we’re trying to do, get as many places.
And so actually when we got our jobs in Alaska, they were pretty adamant about a six month contract, which at first we were like, I don’t know, we’re doing this to be lots of places that’s twice as long as normal. But then, being there, and when that three month mark came, we were so grateful that we had three more months because we hadn’t even scratched the surface. You know, I think you could live there forever and not feel like you’ve scratched the surface and not do it all. Certainly.
But it was definitely, we were grateful to have that full time there because like he said, we were there from May through November. So we got a little touch of, you know, not the full winter, but we got all of summer, the short fall that you have, and then a little taste of winter to getting to ski, like we mentioned.
So that’s definitely the place that we have loved the most, as far as just all things outdoors. It’s unbelievable opportunity. And we fell in love with it head over heels, but the only downside that would prevent us from going all in is it’s just so dang far from all the rest of our family. And so that’s the only downside.
Amy Bushatz: It really, I mean, it really is. One, I cannot even lie to you. It just, it just really is.
Do you feel like that in other places, though, that once you, I mean, because I tend to agree, right? I’ve lived in Alaska for all these years, and I still feel like I haven’t even scratched the surface on the place that I, just the corner of it that I personally live on.
There are peaks that I look at every day that I’m like, this is the year, I’m going up this, this year, and I still haven’t made it happen. And you know, it’s not because I’m like inside watching Netflix, I’m doing other stuff, right? It’s just it’s just, there’s just such a big list.
So I’m wondering, though, if that is possible to feel that way wherever you are, once you start looking for stuff, if there’s really ever a time that you feel like you’ve done it all. You have done every single thing in a place that one could possibly do. The end.
TR Jamar: Yeah. I’ll take that one to start. I would say definitely not, not anywhere that we have been yet. So our trouble always is, once we find out where we’re going, we get excited, we start busting out the internet, you know, and asking friends for recommendations, and before we know it, our calendar is chocked full.
Every weekend has something on, on deck, right? And it’s just one good adventure after another. I would say, especially once you start to meet people in a place and you get their recommendations like a locals recommendation for what to do, it’s always so amazing the things you can find that you couldn’t Google and find right. And I would say that’s it’s kind of this- It’s an interesting perspective because when you get a contract for 13 weeks, you know you’re gonna be in this area for the next three months And you want to do everything that you can possibly do within a drivable radius of there.
And so we, we try that every single weekend. We’ve actually been lucky enough to have four day work weeks for about the last year. So we’ve had three day weekends to go explore. We usually keep about a, a six hour driving radius. Uh, so we’re willing to go pretty far on a weekend just to go see something that we’re excited about.
So that kind of opens up our opportunities. It allows us to do a lot of things in a place. For example, we’ll run into locals or people that we work with and they’ll say, oh man, you’ve been here for three months and, and you’ve done more than we’ve done and we’ve lived here our entire life. But I’ll say at the same time, you know, she kind of mentioned Arkansas earlier as not having all these great outdoor opportunities, but I just think that we didn’t take advantage of those as much as we could have when we lived there. Cause we really make it a point to do that and all these new places and then., you know, there’s the Buffalo river and a lot of,
Amy Bushatz: Yeah. I was just thinking about Buffalo River. What a great spot, you know?
TR Jamar: Absolutely And we have never really fully explored that area. So.
Hailey Jamar: Yeah, you definitely just kind of take for granted some of those things when you live there and you know, like, oh, I could go do it whenever, but then, cause we don’t have that. We are on a tight timeline. And so, like you said, we literally, we know we have 13 weekends, so we write out what they are and when can we go where and what’s going on, you know?
So we just know. We want to fit in as much as we can, and we want to get the full effect of that location and all of it has to offer surrounding that area. And so we just, we just make it happen.
Amy Bushatz: Time for a little break so I can tell you about the Humans Outside 365 Challenge. Want help building your own outdoor habit, some cool swag, and even a finisher medal? The Humans Outside 365 Challenge is a great way to get started. Get outside every day for a year with exclusive help. All you need to do is visit HumansOutside.com/challenge. Don’t get left out. Go to HumansOutside.com/challenge to learn more now. Okay, back to the show.
Yeah. It strikes me that this is just really about intentionality. There’s nothing special per se about living somewhere short versus somewhere long so much as it’s your, what’s special is your mindset. And you know, you could live like you’re moving or you’re not going to be there for very long, wherever you are for however long you’re there.
BUt also the other side of this is having something to do every single, like feeling like you’re on a clock like that sounds a little stressful. Do you ever feel like it’s stressful to be like, Oh my gosh, we have to see all of this because we’re leaving! Hurry up!
Hailey Jamar: Not that part. It’s stressful. Like at the end of the weekend when you’re like, dang, we got to do laundry and meal prep and do the real things to get ready for another four days of work, you know, but no, like knowing the adventures that we have waiting for us on the weekend or like what get us through the week and like, well, we have to do these things so that we can be gone all weekend, you know. So I know everybody is different as far as that goes, but it’s just, it’s who we are and it’s how we roll.
So that’s what we live for. We love being out and just checking it all out. That’s what it’s there for. So we try to see as much of it as we can.
TR Jamar: And to be fair, we are two of the most laid back people that, walk around on
Hailey Jamar: We stress less than most about most things. So there’s that.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah. Yeah. It’s cool. No, I love it. What are some of the challenges of this lifestyle?
TR Jamar: Logistical challenges, .Actually it seems like it would be simple, right? We live in a fifth wheel. So all of our worldly belongings literally fit within 34 by 10. So it seems like things would be simple. But every contract, you know, just different things come up. We’ve had to buy a new vehicle to make things work. Or, you know, shipping our paddle boards home from Alaska, trying to figure out all these funny things, right? Like just things that you don’t think about. But it always feels like we have a million moving parts. But that’s also pretty fun, just kind of to work together to figure that out. And we always know that that it will work out when we just sit back and laugh often. Like, what are these? Funny problems that we’re having to deal with right now? You know, but I don’t know.
Hailey Jamar: Yeah, just logistics. It’s always, uh, you know, getting all the pieces in place to And it used to be more of a problem, not problem per se, but, before we bought this fifth wheel, we had a 1999 fifth wheel that we completely renovated. It was incredible on the inside, but it was still an old 1999 fifth wheel. So not the best looking on the outside.
And a lot of RV parks, we found out as we were looking for a new one every three months, a lot of RV parks have a rule that they don’t want a vehicle that’s older than 10 years in their park.
So I had to just do some extra calling around and we were always able to find an exception. But just things like that, not knowing exactly where you’re going to land or that kind of thing. But like you said, it’s all, it’s kind of a fun process too of, you know, it’s all going to work out. It’s all going to fall into place. But there’s like a week or two week period where it seems kind of chaotic and is this all going to work out or is it not, but it’s all part of the fun.
Amy Bushatz: That’s a little rude to an old RV.
TR Jamar: We’re like we’ll show you pictures of the inside we promise it’s really nice. But they they didn’t typically care about that. I think the structure of our contracts actually kind of helps us out to figure out some of our would be problems, for example, being able to see family enough, right?
Because we’re always away from home, away from all our family, more than we would like to be, you know? We love to get to go home and play with our little nieces and nephews and just see everyone. So when we sign a 13 week contract, we kind of have the freedom of taking a week or two off after that if we want to.
So we get to go home for an extended period of time. And you have to have your dates typically, like the dates that you want off during that time already, put into the contract before you go. So that makes it a little easier. If we know there’s a wedding coming up or something, we’re able to do that. But it is kind of hard, you know, it’s not easy to just make a last minute trip home if need be.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah, yeah, I’m still thinking about the RV park, guys, and my poor vanimal, which is not a looker, but it is a, it is a 1997 baby, and it is beautiful on the inside. We even took the toilet out. It’s no longer janky, so yeah, I just, I had no idea that RV parks ban, have, you know, ageism with RVs.
Hailey Jamar: Yeah, that’s a thing.
TR Jamar: They do, but personally, we don’t care. Because we also had, uh, we just got rid of a 1995 Astrovan that we had as
Amy Bushatz: That’s right. I remember
TR Jamar: Weekend adventure mobile, and it was you know, so it had a lot of its, fair share of issues, shall we say, but it got us up to the mountains this winter, and took us snowboarding and skiing, so. It did the job.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah, yeah, so you said you guys make a plan. How do you make this plan to make sure that you do what you want? How do you prioritize to do what you want in each location? Because I, I would imagine that there, it can be very easy to get, even as no stress people, like too many options and now you have to pick some and I mean, do you decide, hey, we’re going to focus on this, this contract or something else? I’m just, what’s the strategy?
Hailey Jamar: Yeah, we’re kind of, we’re kind of funny in the sense of we, in one weekend, so, you know, we have four day work weeks. I don’t think we’ll ever be able to work five days a week again. We’re spoiled. So, to have three full days, we can cover a lot in those three days. We are very much the, get to a place, run a trail. Maybe grab a beer at the local brewery and then we’re on to the next spot. What’s also on the map that’s close by that we can get to next and do? You know, so like this weekend, we’re leaving in the morning and we’re going to go down to Ouray and Silverton and Durango. And, you know, to see what all we can see along the way, and then maybe swing through Telluride on the way home, all in a couple of days.
So that really helps, you know, some people think that they have to go on, or maybe not think or just prefer, everybody’s different. Some people prefer to go to vacation for one week in one place and park it and see all the things in that one place. And we would just prefer to go to an area, see a little bit of a lot of different places.
And then really, I mean, we have a huge list of places that we know we want to go back to and explore more of. But to get a taste of a little bit of everything is more, you know, desirable to us than just to, to see less, but to see more of one thing at a time.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah.
TR Jamar: That’s our, definitely our general approach. And then Hailey is a master of? Finding these places that I’ve never heard of right? And she’ll be like, oh, yeah, I’ve known about this for the last two years I can’t wait to go explore it — yeah like the enchantments in Washington. It was the coolest like storybook mountains that we got to go play in. I had never heard of it. But as soon as we got that last contract that was like the first thing on her list like oh this is what we’re doing for sure.
So I’d say there’s always you know, two or three, like really big ticket items that, probably a lot of people have heard of. And then we definitely try to leave some room open for, for a few weekends for a word of mouth, word of mouth adventures.
Amy Bushatz: That’s cool. I think that the thing you guys have done that I have been perhaps the most envious of was like a fast packing run down the coast in Washington, I want to say? That you packed and ran the beach and camped and ran some more. I was like that. that is awesome.
Hailey Jamar: Yeah, that was at Rialto Beach. That was a super special trip, actually, because that was the day we found out we were pregnant. So that was just,
Amy Bushatz: Oh, right on.
Hailey Jamar: Special and amazing, and incredible. Yeah, it was a perfect place to celebrate it.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah, yeah, right on. What did you, um, describe for people who aren’t your professional stalkers like I am, uh, what you guys did on that, on that trip? fill us in on everyone else and on the magic of what you guys did there.
Hailey Jamar: We were, our contract was a little bit south of Olympia, Washington. And so we knew we had it on our radar just to get up into the Olympic Peninsula and explore. We didn’t have a super specific itinerary in mind by any means. But you know, you get to a place and you just kind of start looking around and we just pull up Google maps and we’ll click on a place and look at the pictures and like, Oh, that looks, you know, let’s go there.
And then we kind of learn more about it. So we, just stumbled upon Rialto beach and figured out you gotta have a permit. You can backpack it, fast packet, whatever you want to do. So we drive up and it was pretty short. It was like only a couple of miles into the site. So, and it’s funny that they even call it fast packing. Cause it’s really not, you’re not like running fast by any means. But you got what you need on your back and you’re moving your body to where you want to be. So we found this just incredible, the whole trail was along the coast and just this rugged coastline. There’s driftwood, there’s big sea stack rocks in the water, bald eagles flying. Like it was just pretty remarkable. So we found a perfect spot to call home and set up camp and then explored a little farther down and this,
TR Jamar: Yeah so I think the, the posts that you’re referencing had all of that and then- we actually packed up camp that next day and then we went further up the peninsula and, in the Olympic National Park, we went, to the Ho Rainforest, which is just like an hour or two down the road.
So that’s like such a different world. You know, you’re on this rugged coastline and then the Ho Rainforest that next day. And then we actually got up into the High Alpine the next day. So, I mean, that one is just the luck of geography. There were so many awesome places. different places that’s so close together.
I think one of the things that I’ll, that helps us, I’m just thinking about this right now as we’re talking through it, to kind of make these kind of adventures planned for the weekend though, is typically we usually have some kind of ultra marathon or some big event coming up. that we have to quote unquote, train for, right?
So our idea of training is just kind of ingrained into the way that we live life. So it might say on our calendar somewhere that we’d like to do a 20 mile run and a 10 mile run the next day. so that just kind of helps us find some hikes that are in that general length timeframe and then look awesome. So we just kind of put them together and make a weekend of it.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah, I love that because this is kind of what you guys and we were talking about before we started recording. You asked what I’ve been up to and I said I’m doing some more mountains than I usually do because I’m getting ready to hike the Grand Canyon. And really, that’s not about the fact that I can’t do these mountains on a regular basis.
I, because they are literally around my house, I just don’t do it. I don’t make the time for it and I don’t think about my life in that way. And, but because I’m being intentional about, oh yeah, I have to train for this. So now I’m going to go do this thing.
It’s sort of opened up the possibilities of being able to, or making time to, or making it a priority to go out and do these things that really enrich me and fill my soul and spark awe and all that good stuff.
Right. And also look amazing. Right. But like I I’m not doing it for that. I’m doing it because I’m training for the Grand Canyon, quote unquote, right? So and then your step back, you’re like, why don’t I do like, I’m sitting here today, right before we record talking to a friend, okay, I have to do this hike Friday, I’m going to do another thing on Saturday morning. And it’s not that big of a deal to my schedule to make that happen. Why don’t I do this all the time? I mean, this is an open end question. I have no idea.
TR Jamar: Yeah I mean, , that’s the question, right? You can just, you just have to set aside the time and make those things happen. It’s all about your priorities, right? I mean, I think that’s one of the harder things,, is putting it on the calendar, but then also figuring out what you’re willing to sacrifice in order to make that happen, right? And so, if you really think about it, or when we really think about it at least, you know, a day of rest, is just exponentially not as good as getting out in the mountains and seeing something new and filling your cup, you know? We can, we can always rest later. But yeah, we might have to give up a, a Sunday afternoon where we could’ve took it easy and, you know, laid around, and we might have to meal prep for the week and do all our laundry and do all those unfun things. But we know that that means we’re going to get to do more.
Hailey Jamar: Yeah. And just talking about the training, I mean, people, recently, especially people have asked you like, well, how did you train for the Bigfoot 200? And how do you have time for that in your, you know, in your daily life?
But that is our daily life. Like any day that we’re not at work, we prefer for it to be a big day on our feet outside, moving our bodies through the mountains. And so that’s the training. And it’s what we prefer to do. So it just goes hand in hand.
Amy Bushatz: Right. Just, it, uh, it works out because it’s, it’s your lifestyle, you know, and you’ve just sort of built your life around that. I’m wondering for people who aren’t traveling around, who live in a place, if you can give some tips for making the most of where you, like, have this short termer, perspective in a long term location,and maybe integrate this lifestyle right where they are. What, what do you think that people should do?
Hailey Jamar: I mean, I think it’s just like you highlighted on, it’s just about being intentional. So it’s about, you know, finding what are the things that you want to do? And if there are those things that you’ve mentioned and you want to do them and you’ve talked about doing them, then get out a calendar, write it down, you know.
Two Saturdays from now, we’re going to X, Y, Z, whatever it is. I think, you know, talking about my brother also, people, we just take it for granted. It’s human nature to think, I could put it off. you know, I have forever to do that thing. It’s just a matter of kind of realizing that we don’t know. And so if there are these things that you have, you know, realize that you’ve said multiple times, I want to see this. I want to go there. I want to do that. Then write it down, hold yourself accountable, make a plan, tell somebody and make it happen.
TR Jamar: Yeah. We’ll figure out what are those things that scare you a little bit, that excite you a little bit, cause that right there, if you, if you kind of channel that energy, that’s going to allow you to do the things that you need to do on a daily basis in order, to allow that to happen. You know, if you’re not getting excited about it, then yeah, it might not be something that you’re willing to sacrifice to make happen, but just like she said, the things that keep coming up in your mind over and over again, that you’ve thought about doing, just find a way to go and do them.
Hailey Jamar: We say a lot of times we say, well, don’t talk about it, be about it. So just, you know, if it’s something that you’ve said, then make it happen and go do it.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah. And it, you know, I’m thinking about what those sacrifices look like, right? They could be anything from, you know, spending money on one thing and not another. For me, often it’s, a sleep. I love to sleep. You know, I’m like, I, I mean, I would be very happy camper if I slept 10 hours a night. My life would be super good. okay. But that’s not logistically possible with all of the stuff that I really want to do. Right?
So I sacrifice that and not, I don’t only sacrifice not sleeping 10 hours a night, but you know, maybe on the weekend where I plan to sleep more like eight instead of seven. I’m doing the same seven, or a little bit even less than that.
And I’m a huge advocate of getting enough sleep. I think that people stay up late and, you know, get up early more than they have to, you know, just the whole hustle culture thing, which is an entirely different subject.
But I think within balance and with looking at it as a sacrifice to pursue adventures, a nd in moderation, you know, an extra half, like, just that extra half hour in the morning helps me have an adventure that I wouldn’t otherwise have time for. so,
Hailey Jamar: Another piece of advice for people to get out there, you know, sometimes people get caught up in, well, I have to have all this gear or I have to spend the money to have the XYZ and the bells and whistles to go and do this thing. And there’s so much overthought and then that just keeps you from doing the actual thing when really you don’t have to have any of that. You gotta have you, your spirit of adventure, and get out there and do it and have a good time.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah. Yeah. I, hopefully when people hear this, they will have also heard an episode that we’ve done with Ivy Le, who is the host of the Fear of Going Outside podcast. And she and I were talking about REI, and she used the term “REI happened to me.” So it didn’t, it was like, it was like a An event, she was, attacked by.
Hailey Jamar: Ha
Amy Bushatz: REi. happened to me. But what she meant is, and, and another thing she said is that, you know, there are barriers that we put up and that society has put up for going outside, and one of them looks like needing, quote unquote, all of this gear that you don’t really need, and others of them look likegatekeeping, which can be just as simple as terminology. She joked that, and not even really joked, I mean laughing haha, right? But this is a thing that they’ve, they rebranded walking and called it hiking and that makes it sound scarier,
TR Jamar: And you need a special shoe to do that.
Hailey Jamar: Yeah.
Amy Bushatz: Exactly.
Hailey Jamar: And a special stick to take with you.
Amy Bushatz: Precisely. They’ve rebranded walking and made it sound scary. And, and I, but I think that’s such a good point because while there are sure gear can make you more or less comfortable or fancy looking or whatever, right? There are reasons for having those things that they’re not all of them are super real. So, you. Ha ha! Yeah.
Hailey Jamar: Well, and even aside from the material side of things, just the physical side of things, we’ve heard a lot of people put barriers on themselves and I’m not in good enough shape to get out there and do that, or, you know. And it’s just a matter of realizing you don’t have to get to the top of the summit your first time out. There’s so much adventure and beauty and fun to be had in the first half mile of the trail. And, you know, there’s just getting yourself out the door without any of those limitations on yourself. Is so rewarding.
TR Jamar: Yeah, I think that’s huge. And I mean, in our profession, right? We’re obviously, we love to move. We love to help people move in the ways that they want to, right? Like there’s nothing that gets me more excited to go to work then if somebody is like, hey, I can’t wait to get back outside. Or or I can’t wait to be able to walk around the grocery store again. Honestly, just like the idea of getting people moving more is so exciting to us and I definitely think that people do put those limitations on themselves. Like you know, oh I can’t get to the summit of that mountain. That’s 13 miles away. So I’m just not going to do it. So if you can just find a way to, to be grateful for the, for the legs that you have, that’ll carry you that first mile, even if you’re dragging yourself back to the truck, you’re going to be so excited when you get home. There’s never a time when we get home from an adventure and we’re like, Oh man, that was horrible. I can’t believe we did that, you know, No matter how big or small, you’re always glad that you went and you’re always glad that got to see that thing, right? It’s like any little simple thing. You can see, just look at the trees one day, and the way that the wind’s blowing them, and that moment will just catch you and stay with you and uplift you for a long time. It doesn’t have to be the summit of some mountain that you’re so proud to be on top of, and you can see as far as you can. It’s just going down a simple trail and watching a squirrel hop across and getting excited about being out in nature. There’s just, there’s so much depth to it, to getting outside and to moving your body. obviously I’m not, I just get excited about it. So Yeah.
Amy Bushatz: Yeah. Well, co signed and what a great note to end on. Guys, TR and Hailey, thank you so much for joining me on Humans Outside today. I’ve so appreciated your time and I’ve just really loved catching up with you guys. Congrats again on the baby and all on your incredible runs and I will be stalking you further on the internet.
Thank you so much for having us.
Hailey Jamar: Great chatting with you. Thank you.
Amy Bushatz: That’s a wrap on this episode of Humans Outside. But hey, I need your help. Enjoy this show? Leave a five star rating or review or both wherever you get your podcasts. It makes me feel good, but it also helps others find the show too. Now, go get outside. Until next time, we’ll see you out there.