How to Do It All, Not Do It All and Get Outside (Rachel Brenke)

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Rachel Brenke podcast

If all you know of attorney and entrepreneur Rachel Brenke is her online presence, you might be tricked into thinking she literally does it all. Her boutique law firm specializes in supporting small businesses nationwide with their brands, providing legal resources for digital entrepreneurs, photographers and gym owners. But she’s also a mom, spouse, runner, ironman and thyroid cancer survivor. 

But behind the magic is a finely tuned system of hard work, maximizing what she spends her time on — and hitting the outdoors to help the whole thing work. In this episode Rachel talks about how the outdoors helps her make it happen, how she fits it in with her multiple jobs and hobbies and tips for others looking to balance it all.

Some of the good stuff:

[2:28] Rachel Brenke’s favorite outdoor space

[3:33] Is Rachel a human or a robot?

[4:49] How Rachel got to apparently doing everything

[9:03] Does she have it all together?

[12:12] Rachel’s outdoor story

[17:04] The murder of her dog, Archer

[18:52] How the outdoors helped with her trauma 

[22:37] Fitting nature in with running a small business

[26:54] Balancing the schedule

[35:46] The problem of multitasking 

[37:31] Rachel’s favorite outdoor gear

[38:33] Rachel’s most essential outdoor gear

[41:52] Rachel’s favorite outdoor moment

Connect with this episode:

Learn more about Rachel Brenke

Follow Rachel Brenke on Instagram 

Eden Law

The Lawtog 


Rachel Brenke, Team USA Triathlon 

Rachel’s favorite gear: a great visor
Rachel’s most essential gear: Garmin running watch

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Follow us on Instagram and share your outdoor life with the hashtag #humansoutside365.

Here’s an edited transcript of our conversation on The Humans Outside Podcast. Listen to the episode on iTunes, Google Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

AB  0:01  

Have you ever met someone through social media and spent all of your time wondering how in the world they managed to do everything? Now, I am the queen, squeezing all the goodness out of every day and you know, I’m a productivity junkie. So when I find someone who’s doing even more, I have questions – big, big questions. Rachel Brenke is that person, a mom, spouse, runner, Iron Man and thyroid cancer survivor. She’s the host of the Business Bytes podcast, where she shares business focused legal advice. She owns a boutique law firm, which specializes in intellectual property. She’s a rocking entrepreneur with several small businesses, including the Law Tog, which specializes in legal resources for photographers, and Fit Legally, which specializes in legal resources for gym owners. I think you can hear that her hustle knows no bounds. But behind all of that, of course, is the human Rachel. And human Rachel is someone who looks to the outdoors to give her the push she needs. She’s someone who gained 100 pounds after having kids and then lost it for both her physical health and her mental health. Here to tell us how she does it all without going crazy, Rachel Brenke, welcome to the Humans Outside Podcast.


RB  1:48  

Hey, Amy, thanks for having me. Well, I’ll just give the spoiler upfront. I don’t know how to have it all but I’ll share how I’ve done a lot and also a couple tips that I’ve learned along the way.


AB  2:00  

That’s good because we all know that you really can’t do it all, because I’ve tried  – one, and two, you know, there’s always a secret. So I’m stoked to hear about that. But first, as always, we like to pretend that we’re in podcast land, actually, but instead, we’re pretending that we’re hanging out and chatting in your favorite outdoor space or doing your favorite thing outside. Where are we chatting today?


RB  2:28  

Anything that has water! More specifically, it would probably be on the beach getting ready to start an Iron Man – beach, whether it’s lake or actual ocean, that right before we get into the water is my happy place.


AB  2:35

Cool. So we’re like hanging out in really attractive wetsuits? Is that right? And swim caps, which I am convinced is the great equalizer of humans. No one looks good in a swim cap. You can be the most gorgeous person ever and you do not look good in a swim cap, the end. So I like swim caps because they even the playing ground.


RB  3:10  

Yeah for sure. No, I just and I know that’s probably not like the most serene answer – some people are like — oh on a beach with a Mai Tai. No, I thrive on the fast paced life. It’s that little calm right before the fast paced day of an Iron Man that I love on the water. 


AB  3:24  

On the water. I love it. Okay, so before anything else, are you a real human who does all this stuff? Or are you a robot?


RB  3:33  

I have been catfishing you this entire time. Really, because I’ve met you in person many times. I’m not a robot. I do things very probably robotic and methodically in order to be able to do or have more time for other things in my life. So especially my businesses are very methodical, very structured, which is kind of funny because you meet me in person you’re like — that’s not the same person I see online — because I’m kind of a mess. But I think my advice here is when you look at someone and you know, like you Amy or myself, and from the outside can look like we have it all together, we know what’s going on. All the things that we’ve done is not all done at the same time. Like all the things you listed in my intro had been spanning 10-15 years. 


AB  4:18  

Yep, totally. Okay, but you’re like a human, not machine. So real. I’m trying to clear that up. Okay. When we talk about living outdoor-centric lives, now on the Humans Outside Podcast, we’ve talked to farmers, we’ve talked to outdoor writers and experts, hikers and therapists and a kayaker and a time management guru. Okay. You are a small business owner and a goal crusher. So tell us first, how did you get there? Talk to us about your journey to being those things.


RB  4:49  

I have never really ever fit into a box physically and emotionally, like I’ve always wanted to be outside which is so fitting. I think that’s why you and I get along so well. But also even in school, I never really fit into the whole structure of formalized school education, never fit into like a cubicle nine to five. And so from a very young age, I always knew I wanted to have like an alternative career. I just didn’t know what that looked like. And in a nutshell, because it’s like a lot. But in a nutshell, you know, I was in college, married my husband, who’s now out of the Army, but at the time was in and out deployed, I had cancer. And when I had that, we only had one kid at the time, we have five now, I realized that if I really wanted to do what I wanted to do, I had to throw away all the regular conventional notions of education, career, and do what I wanted to do. And so I finished, I did finish my formalized education. But then I just started businesses, and this was in the MySpace days, you know, keeping in mind for y’all listening, this was before this whole freemium model of information that’s put out there, like podcasts really weren’t a thing. I think Blogger wasn’t even like hardly a thing at the time, and Facebook, Twitter, none of that even was a thought. So, at the time, there was no real guidance. I just kind of tried to figure it out. And one of the big thing that I realized was I love to teach and I love to help other people. Also that didn’t fit into the nine to five or fit into a conventional box. And so I started doing, you know, I dabbled in an online apparel store, which was one of my first entrepreneurial pursuits, which is funny because I’m not at all fashionable whatsoever. But I started realizing that at the time, there was not a lot of information out in the world. Again, that was a decade and a half ago there. We didn’t have Pinterest. Google is not what it is now. And so I just started out doing blog posts, and it was really all centered around other questions that people had for me. They were looking from the outside, going — well, you’re doing this, you know all this. Well, I was faking it till I made it. I didn’t know everything. At the time, I was putting out the information. What I realized in that process was not just that, I’m feeling gap in the market that needed to be filled. But I was getting very efficient. Because one of the things that when I first started entrepreneurship, it was like — well, I want to do entrepreneurship on my own level, but I don’t know what to offer. And so I just stood back and listened really to what other people were asking. And actually that process I have instituted in my e-commerce stores, in my law firm, everything – we listen to what our customers are asking for first, and then their biggest pain points. And then we supplement that with what we want. And so taking all that information, and sticking it into like a standardized workflow, we’re able to serve the needs of the customers, we’re able to serve our purpose of entrepreneurship, but making it very automated and almost mechanical. And I hate to say the term mechanical because it sounds too robotic. We still want the human on it. But it allows us to free up time to have the one on one personalized time. Like I wouldn’t be here talking with you, because I’d be hammering things out if I didn’t have automated processes.


AB  8:00  

Right, absolutely. Um, it’s funny that you mentioned because this will be long gone, or maybe you’ll have already done it again, by the time people hear this podcast, but just like today, I saw on your Instagram that you had asked people — Hey, like, yo, why are you following me? It’s great marketing question. Like, wait, what I mean, did she see me? You know, but then your point asking that you explained further down the post was — no, really like, why are you here? Because we want to make sure that we’re answering the needs and addressing what you need. And to know that I would love to know what brought you here, and you have an incredibly engaged Instagram following and social media following and so I’m sure people are already answering that question. You know, like, maybe not when I’m your stalker, but maybe you’re really honest. I mean, that could be the thing, you know, um, but you know, you are putting that out there in exactly the way you’re saying. Like I can testify, I’ve seen that.


RB  9:03  

And I’m glad you brought up that post because it shows you on how far into this and from the outside looking at a lot of people say — Oh, she’s got it all together, you know, once you hit that pinnacle like everything’s easy. I hate to break it to you. It’s not. That post is the easiest way for me to do market research plus get my algorithm up for engagement. So I kill two birds with one stone, plus a third stone really because I needed another picture to keep the algorithm even pumping because you have to post regularly. So I was able to do a low budget/high return digging for information, simply by just making a quirky caption that encapsulated my personality and pushed it out there. Even though I’ve been doing this for how long? I don’t have all the answers. We’re always asking.


AB  9:48  

Right. And for those of you who are listening to this who don’t know about Facebook, Rachel may not be a robot, but Facebook is. And so Facebook is operated by the robots and the algorithms that essentially reward people who are posting things with getting their content in front of more followers if you do what the robots want. And right now, and that’s the frustrating thing, it’s constantly changing, by the way. So it’s like you wake up and it’s different. But at the moment, which Rachel just listed as being the things to make the algorithm happy, are what works, you know, more photos, more posts, more engagement, and those things feed off of each other. And tada, the robots are your friends again. 


RB  10:36  

The robot keeps you on your toes. Because I think that’s, you know, I was frustrated too. And whether you’re listening to this, whether you’re in business or you’re not maybe running nonprofit, you’re trying to get the word out there you simply just want to be seen whatever it is, you do have to stay on top of these changes. And you know, I do miss the days when I could post on Facebook and everybody on my likes list could see everything. But I also, as someone who enjoys a challenge – obviously through like even my personal pursuits – is, I’m embracing the fact that I have to figure out the robots and what the robots want and get people to do the actions I need. So like that engagement post, you’ll notice I have some crazy facial cues when I speak and talk, so I use a lot of those pictures in my marketing because it gets people talking plus they get to know me as a person. So yeah, like I’m good with honestly the changes I mean today maybe past me tomorrow, I still feel this way, but I’m okay with the changes because it keeps me on the top of my game.


AB  11:34  

Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned earlier that going outside is that you know, having time to spend time outside is a huge part of your why. You dropped the weight that you gained when you had kids and like so many of us do, by the way, by running. I want to see like the string of how you got into spending more time outside, so talk about why running and why outside. Because by the way, you can totally run on a treadmill in your garage watching DVDs. Although I wouldn’t recommend that, but you can do it.


RB  12:12  

It’s funny that you say that because all I’ve been doing is treadmill running because I’m in a funk because of a pandemic, which is why this podcast is like at a perfect time. But normally and really true, I’m going to take my own tips on what I’m about to say. I was already losing some of the weight dietary and, and either way, exercise can only take you so far and diet can only take you so far, you really need both. I was struggling with postpartum depression, struggling with you know, my self image especially since I am very front and center on my brand. It was starting to creep into my work. I didn’t want to post photos. I was only putting old photos up there. You know, I just was very gun shy about going to speaking events because my clothes didn’t fit right. I just was not confident. I couldn’t keep up with my kids and I was having health issues out of the being overweight and so I worked really hard you know, with diet for a while, brought in the exercise. But what’s funny with the running thing, I don’t think I would have stuck with it except this girl that I went to high school with, actually we swam on the swim team together, and we hadn’t seen – we still haven’t seen each other – since like high school. She saw on Facebook that I was doing like Couch to 5k. Well, she was in Iron Man, she was doing triathlons and she noticed in a picture that I took, because you have to take that gratuitous selfie when you’re out running, and she goes — what socks and shoes are you wearing? And I was like — oh girl, whatever clothes I’ve had since I was in like eighth grade. And I woke up a couple days later with an Amazon box and she had sent me some equipment, some running equipment, and I actually still have one of the pairs of socks that she gave me I had it stitched into my race blanket because it meant a lot and It was almost like — I can’t give up. She’s given me a gift. I can’t just put the socks in a drawer. And so I just went from there. And I just went from 5k, 10k half, and then moved into triathlons since I was a swimmer in high school and college. You know, I really enjoyed the swimming aspect, as you guys can see from my outside place. And yeah, that’s just what’s the trajectory of all that. 


AB  14:24  

I find that people take on drugs, sports, do it for mental reasons, a lot. It’s not so much like about overcoming something. It’s not necessarily about being outside and then like being outside is just sort of a part of the package, right? Like, this thing is outside. So here I am. Okay. Was that true for you? Or was being outside part of the draw itself? 


RB  14:45  

Yeah, it was a couple different things. I mean, being someone that worked from home, we had young kids at the time, anything, any excuse I could do to get out of the house. I love my kids, but you know, you get your own alone time. I mean, I joke, people ask — why are you Iron Man? That’s 140.6 miles. I’m like — yes, that’s 140.6 miles and not wiping snot or butts or getting a snack for anybody else but myself. But as far as the outside stuff, I do feel better when I go outside just in general you know, the scientific aspect of change of location, your interaction with the elements, the sun in this fresh air, etc. It just is totally rejuvenating. And I’ve actually noticed that since now, during the pandemic, I have been running a lot inside because it’s very, very hot here where we live and my schedule just has not been conducive to getting out really early. I like to sleep in. So that’s all my fault. But I noticed that I am not getting now the best return on my fitness because I’m running inside versus running outside. Now I’m not saying if your only option is a treadmill not to do it. I just noticed that the outdoor elements definitely have a major impact on my mental feeling. And I also feel like the days are longer when I’m able to go outside just your change of location. Definitely helps you to feel like you’ve had a more complete day, at least for me.


AB  16:04  

Yeah, yeah. And I find that it’s so, that as you’re saying the going outside becomes the draw like it’s almost like the things swap. Right. So, whereas I was running and then therefore outside, now I am outside, therefore, I guess I’ll run.


RB  16:20  

Yeah, I mean it’s also to like when I get on an exercise plan, whatever I can fit in, that is the low hanging fruit – however, I can get it fit in. But if I had to choose to get out to exercise, I’ll change up my days outside. You know, if I’m like — Oh, it’s a really nice day, even though it should be like a swimming day or whatever was not happening right now. But I will switch it to running so that I can fully get the benefits of that nice weather.


AB  16:47  

Absolutely. But I know it hasn’t always been all fun and games outside. You know, I, not long ago, it was outside where you had this really incredible tragedy through the murder of your dog Archer. Now you and I talked about this ahead of time, so I know you’re okay with talking about it. Would you tell us about that?


RB  17:04  

Yeah, actually I enjoyed talking about him because he was my first real dog and he was the one that helped me run all the miles to lose all the weight and helped me to get to Team USA and Iron Man so he and I were buddy, buddy. And yeah, there was a situation where a gentleman – we have run past right next door to our house where I ran with Archer all the time, and he was walking with his dog. He had approached our fence and he has admitted this in public court documents so I can share it. He had approached our fence with two knives, my kids were out there, and he and my dog ended up he ended up approaching into my dog’s space, and stabbed him in the heart and killed him. And that was extremely traumatic for me, mentally and physically. I ended up developing a chronic illness later on in the year after evaluating I do think that the trauma of that event, because of how tight it was. I love being outside. I love it. Running and those are the run trails, plus running with Archer. And it all happened right there. And so there was a, there was a lot of impact mentally and physically that I’m still having to deal with from that.


AB  18:10  

Absolutely. So okay, so how do you work through that, through those associations?


RB  18:16  

What do you mean by that?


AB  18:18  

Well, I mean, like, um, you know, the things that you had turned to previously for relief, right, are now associated with the opposite of that. I don’t want to just like equate this to like the Boston Marathon bombing, right? Because they’re very different. But that’s another instance where people who are looking to something for mental health now have this thing tied to not mental health, right, to just absolute, just tragedy and horror and PTSD.


RB  18:52  

So trauma is trauma, whether it’s small or large, and that’s why it’s hard when you see these stories of people. They’re like — well, I used running to come back. Since I’ve had my own glimpse into trauma, right, it was traumatic for me. I don’t compare it to Boston Marathon bombing or anything like that, but I now have a better appreciation to go — no, I know they lost their joy and running because it was very difficult for me. And actually, my first marathon was supposed to be when my first marathon outside and Iron Man was supposed to be the week that he was murdered. And I hadn’t eaten, I hadn’t slept all of this, and actually, my run team rallied around me, they all like contacted the race director last minute and they hadn’t trained for a marathon. And they had bought a bed and they had made an arrangement with the race director for them to kind of relay so there could always be somebody with me on course, and it got to the point where I actually got to like mile 23 and my body just shut down, etc. But the reason I share that story is I withdrew from running. It was very hard for a long time. I had panic attacks going outside. So I did run on the treadmill a lot. And I do think it was kind of a double edged sword. I was avoiding the trails being on the treadmill, but I was also not getting the returns of being outside, right, all the benefits that we just talked about. So nice that I felt like I had to go run the marathon, even though I wasn’t ready and my heart really wasn’t in it because my team had done this for me. And that helped push me through. So I feel like no matter what trauma you’ve gone through, it takes the joy out of something, whether it’s an external influence like that, that kind of helped pull you through, or if it’s something inside yourself, well first have patience and grace, right? Because even after that marathon, even though I ran with them, I still couldn’t run outside on the trails for a long time. But I think having one pivotal moment where either you decide to push through, or an external influence pulls you through. Definitely. I feel like that happens for a lot of people after trauma.


AB  20:53  

Yeah, absolutely.


Okay, so owning a small business is not just a full time thing, it’s more than a full time thing. Like there’s no day off. There’s no rest day. Okay, um, where does your outdoor time fit into that from a synergy perspective? Does one fuel the other?


RB  22:37  

Well, two things. One, I’m at a place now because I’ve worked so hard for so long that like when the trauma happened, I’ve had other life events even now, my schedule really allows that for the most part, I can get outside, I can exercise, and the business is not going to stop without me. So I do have days off now, but that’s because I put in a lot of elbow grease in the beginning. I learned this lesson the hard way, you know, you’re driven with fear in the very beginning of entrepreneurship, you don’t want to fail. So you feel like you have to work all the time. And I really had to learn that. And it kind of coincided with this whole story. We’ve talked about, you know, my fitness trajectory and all that. But I do think that entrepreneurship in the beginning was adding to a lot of kind of the mental decline that I was having, you know, in addition to being overweight and just insecure and all of that, because I wasn’t taking time. It’s like this whole catch 22 right. I wasn’t taking time to exercise, and I still do this now, but even then I realized I have to schedule in when I’m going to get outside and it’s been a little bit more difficult. Sometimes you go through waves in life, like now during a pandemic or whenever, you know, depends on your life circumstances have to give yourself grace. It’ll move around, but for the most part I schedule the very first part of the day is my exercise or else I know it won’t get done. That goes on the calendar. Nothing else gets booked.


AB  23:54  

Absolutely. That makes so much sense. You just have to be intentional, you know, is the word we use a lot, right? That you, it’s how I that’s how I scheduled my 20 minutes in a way, you know, I don’t, it’s only 20 minutes. So I don’t have to usually unless we’re talking like a travel day or something like that physically put it on the calendar. But, you know, I think that that is my priority and I’m intentional about it. So I think in terms of when am I going to do this, and then build other things around that. So I have sort of a nine to five sort of full time job. It’s a little bit more flexible than that, but not actually nine to five in my timezone. But it’s pretty predictable in that way. Like I’m at my desk for a certain amount of time each day. So that’s sort of set in stone. And then from there, I have my podcast, I have my business, I have grad school, I have all this, you know, my kids and stuff, and all of that I consider when I build in, when am I going to go outside When am I going to spend my 20 minutes and I think that’s even more true in the winter time. When things are just harder, because jackets, you know, or whatever. So, yeah, so I totally get that. I do want to talk about some practical advice because we mentioned earlier that you’re not a robot who is also human, you know? Somehow you still manage to do the things plus even more things. So talk to us about those practicalities. How do you prioritize those goals? And how do you make space for the training and other outdoor time? 


RB  25:28  

Everything is scheduled. And I know that sounds almost so cliche, but I am one of those. I’m very mechanical, but I’m also a hot mess on the other side. So for me, I work better, more productive when each day is a specific thing. We’re recording on a Wednesday. I record on Wednesdays for my podcasts and to be on other people’s, so I unless it’s like an extreme circumstance, I don’t record any other days. Like law firm stuff is on certain days, phone calls or certain times that way, there’s predictability not just for me, but also for my family and also for my support teams of the different businesses, they know that I am fully accessible for that specific business on that day. So the rest of the time, obviously, you know, they have to take ownership and work on their stuff, and I am accessible, but I’m not available for like an hour brainstorming call. Our brainstorming call needs to be scheduled on the day that that brand or that business is carved out for. And for me, that kind of reduces a lot of anxiety. And just oh my gosh, what’s my schedule like today? I know when I wake up on Wednesdays that I have to get dressed because some will be on video. And or, you know, like, I gotta get my run down quickly. When I have to shower. I can’t sit in my run clothes while I record because I’ve got to look presentable for video, etc. Whereas other days, when I know they’re just phone calls, I don’t have to worry about that sort of stuff – and that sounds so simplistic. You’re like — Oh, she doesn’t want to shower. But when you are trying to cram in as many things as I’m trying to do because I want to be done by this. time of the day to be able to give to my kids in the afternoon to the evenings. I don’t want to have to give up my exercise in the morning, and then say — oh, I’ll do it later. I said earlier won’t happen because I won’t give up that time in the evening, oftentimes, you know, to go exercise because I want to spend time with my kids. And plus, I’m just mentally better if everything’s methodical and I exercise first.


AB  27:23  

But you know what, I think there’s like a hesitancy when we think about spending time outside to schedule it. Because we think that it should just be this natural thing that we do. Like this should be organic. This should just happen because I’m, you know, I’m a person who wants to be natural and spend time outside. It’s like, it’s sort of counterintuitive to this concept of scheduling and making sure things happen. But when we heard from Laura Vanderkam on the podcast, she is a time management expert, who’s been on one of these episodes, and she talked about the importance of scheduling if you don’t, and understanding where your time goes. If you don’t know where your time is going, how can you possibly spend it the way you want to spend it? You know, and that’s exactly what you’re talking about. And I, again, I think that there’s a hesitancy to do that around this subject in particular, because people feel like you don’t need to be that intentional or that practical about something that should just be a natural part of who you are.


RB  28:24  

Well, let me flip that on its head. You say you’re talking about us. But think about it. Time scheduling is a boundary for other people. So my team knows when I’m running between 7-8-9 in the morning, that is a boundary for them not to call me to ask the question. So it’s not, I get where you’re coming from. We want to be more organic, but you can’t be so loosey goosey. When you do have a team or you’re working with clients, they’re asking me boundaries to protect because if I don’t protect my time at all, I’m going to have no time to ever fit in that organic and I still get outside of it. Like, if I have a client call me someone like you, me, I might go for a walk and do it. Because I know you’re not gonna care if you hear the leaves in the background, and that kind of stuff. So, I still do try to get outside throughout the day.


AB  29:12

No, absolutely. No. and i and i and i completely agree with that. I just think that, you know, that may be the hesitancy of some folks who are listening that like — I don’t want to do that.


RB  29:25

But what are the what what are the benefits out of it? I mean, cuz like I mentioned before, I don’t schedule it, it’s not going to happen. Am I going to feel worse having to force myself going, you’re going during a certain time or not getting to go at all?


AB  29:40

Mm hmm. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So okay, on that vein, if you had three tips to give people for you know, doing all the things and still having the you know, fitting it all in – well, I mean, making a schedule is clearly one of them. What are some others?


RB  29:53

Well, the first one on the schedule thing, put all your personal stuff first. I think that’s what’s important because I am big about business, but there’s no point in business if you don’t have a life. So put in your everyday stuff that you need to do, the obligations that you have, carve all that in, and then put around your business stuff. And I understand that’s not always consistent. There are times when businesses is busier. And then there’s times that family stuff is just busier. So give yourself grace on that. 


Other tips on I’m a big proponent of, you know, you hear the phrase ‘No, is a complete answer’ or whatever. I know a lot of people don’t want to say no and set boundaries because they’re afraid of losing opportunities. I see this a lot with newer entrepreneurs, including myself, and I still even feel this way. So I am a big fan of saying — not right now — instead of no. So like, if you had reached out to me I was familiar enough that I could have said no right now, we’ll do it later. But if it was someone that I was really worried would never let me come on the podcast again, I might feel like — oh my gosh, I gotta fit them in, even though it’s stressing me out — which can then impede other areas of I work in home life, and I might have been not wanting to say no or not right now for fear of losing that. But I feel like saying — not right now, can we schedule for x time? That though setting those types of boundaries, make them a little bit looser can really help for a lot of reducing stress and time management. Because I used to be one of those if I got an inquiry, I jumped right on it. Like I have to get a podcast this week, or I’m going to lose the opportunity. And most people are human, you know, and I think that’s the biggest key thing in life is that, you know, we see a lot of nastiness on the internet with everyone’s stuck home, blah, blah, blah. But we’re all humans, and there’s a lot better humans that understand, hey, life’s happening. I’m just happy to have you on my podcast. So whenever you want to do it, you know that they can extend that to you.


AB  31:44

Yeah. And that’s, that’s how I feel. So thank you. 


RB  31:46

You’re welcome. Because I love you.


AB  31:48

But any other any other tips?


RB  31:52

Well, I mean, one of the other key things and maybe this is further along in business or even in personal life, you might not be able to financially afford something like this. But I always ask myself — do my fingers have to be touching this task? I’ve actually been really trying to use this during the pandemic in my house, because I’ve been trying to like clean everything. And I’m like, wait, I have five kids? Do I really need to be sweeping when one of these five kids laying around on their phones could be doing it? But asking yourself, do my hands have to be doing this task, whether it’s business or home life and then finding a solution to have someone else do that? I’m not saying like, give up all your obligations. But for example, no one else can come on a podcast for me. So if I’m wasting my time elsewhere, like updating my website or sweeping my floor, I wouldn’t have time to come on the Humans Outside Podcasts. So by releasing and asking that question, and getting rid of that responsibility, it frees me up for things that actually bring me joy and better return.


AB  32:47

Absolutely. And so when I hear you say is outsource.


RB  32:50

I was avoiding that word because I feel like people hear it so often, then they get glossed over, so I was trying to avoid that word, Amy!


AB  32:58  

Sorry. Well, I mean, I love me some outsourcing, although I will confess that I only recently started doing that for my business. I’ve been a fan of that for, you know, other parts of my life for a long time. For example, I have a housecleaner who comes and helps me. And it’s really just a simple math equation, right? Because if you can sit down and say — What is my time worth? And how much in am I paying a housecleaner? Right? Like just math. Okay, and then what’s the value of my sanity? And how much do I actually like cleaning my own house? And you do all of this algebra around, you know, this, I’m not really a numbers person. We’ve talked about that before, so I’m gonna stop making math analogies now before I become dangerous, but when you crunch all of those things, and you come up with whether or not hiring a house cleaner is worth it, you know, and for me, it was. However, I actually like weeding my yard, right so I find weeding tomorrow in my yard to be super cathartic. So rip those bad boys out, right? So I’m not going to hire someone to do that. I’m going to do that myself because I actually like it.


RB  34:09  

Or the other piece of that is there are tasks though, like you like weeding, but do you maybe also still want to maximize your time out of that, I will do things like, I don’t like laundry necessarily, or other tasks. I’ll listen to podcasts and still do either, whether it’s educational, personal growth, or sometimes you just want to be quiet and listen to nothing but the outside. That’s cool, too. And you don’t have to pick one and say — okay, every time I run, I’m gonna listen X, Y, and Z, let it be organic, like you’re talking about earlier, just get outside, and then see how your body feels or what you want to do.


AB  34:40  

But I think that brings up a really good point because for somebody like you or I, you know, these people who really like to be productive and who have these schedules, it’s easy to fall into the multitasking trap, which is to say, like, if I’m going to do something where I could be doing something else at the same time, I should absolutely be using that time wisely. Doing something at the same time. So for you know, maybe that means I’m going to always listen to podcasts while I run, right two birds one stone, which I find the irresistible concept, by the way. Or if I’m going on a walk, I should be also checking my email because I could be outside and walking. And as long as there are no cars, I can also read my email. Now you’re missing out on the other benefits of doing that activity, which is not to say like, you shouldn’t ever do those things, you know, do two things at once. It’s just to say like, think about being outside as already doing something else. You are physically outside and you are mentally outside. Right. And those are two different things.


RB  35:46  

I think it boils down to like multitasking. You’re – what is it – the jack of all trades, master of none. And that’s kind of the same mentality when you’re multitasking. Like you said, you’re not getting the best benefits. I had a friend that actually told me that I was studying for the bar exam and also training for an Iron Man. And I was like — Oh, well, I just studied when I’m on the bike. And she’s an attorney also, and she goes — you’re only doing 50% of each. You’re not getting you know, you think you’re saving time and maybe you are on paper, but you’re not getting the full benefit of the bike ride, which you’re going to see on race day. And you’re not getting the full benefit of that study, which you’re going to see on test day.


AB  36:25  

Yep, absolutely. That’s so true. And I think that that is really hard to remember that that’s true. Because you want to do all the things like we just talked about, and you can’t, but you think you can if you just layer them, but you can’t layer everything. Because then you have a not very delicious cake. Cake. I think you and I are both counting macros right now. Right?


RB  36:52  

So don’t remind me.


AB  36:57

All right, not to digress. All right. Okay, so we’ve come to the end. Even though I could talk to you for the rest of my life, where we do our little leftovers round, okay. So we just like to know people’s favorite stuff, right? It’s just how we roll here. So talk to us. What is your favorite gear?


RB  37:14

Amy I’m the most indecisive person. My favorite gear like for exercise?


AB  37:18

Yeah, like outside gear like, your most beloved thing. The thing you love doesn’t have to be the most practical because that’s the second question, by the way.


RB  37:30  

You prepped me with this question, and I still don’t have an answer. So this is why when I go to a restaurant I would do the same thing every time because I’m so indecisive. Not because I love that item. My favorite piece of gear is probably a visor. I love visors. Not because they give me shade. Oh, I don’t like my forehead. That’s so vain. Let me give you a better one.


AB  37: 56

There you go. There you go. And keeps your forehead off the camera. No, no, that’s not what we meant.


I don’t like visors because I think they make me look like that guy from the cooking channel whose first name is Guy. I don’t know his last name. I look ridiculous. I keep buying visors thinking — oh, I’ll totally look cool in this. And I don’t. I don’t look cool, I look terrible. So okay, most essential gear, like the thing that is the most useful or like you literally can’t live without this thing.


RB  38:33  

My Garmin watch. Even if I’m going just for like a fun run – it doesn’t count unless it’s on the Garmin! Even if I don’t look at it for thos whole run!


AB  38:47

Yeah, that’s some sort of intense Voodoo like self control to not look at it. I don’t believe you. I will say – fun Amy fact, I wear two watches to run.


RB  39:03  



AB  39:04  

I know. I know because here’s the thing guys, here’s the thing. I have an Apple watch that I love, okay? Because it gives me my text messages and it keeps me from looking at my phone and I can answer my phone on it and it pings me for Slack for my full time job. I can control the music, whatever. Okay, um, I hate it for running. I hate it. But it also tracks my activity during the day and I cannot stand the thought that I would run like bajillion miles and not close those stupid rings. Okay, so I wear my Garmin. I’m left handed so I have my Apple watch on my right hand. I wear my Garmin on my left hand to like actually be my running watch. Because I like the functions it has better. And my Apple watch I wear still because God forbid I run 10 miles and not close my rings today. Not an acceptable outcome. People are like — are you wearing TWO watches? Yes, yes, I am.


RB  40:11

So now who’s the robot? Amy!


AB  40:14  

I know. The rings. I’m a slave to the rings. I don’t know. Okay, so here’s specifically the problem because now you’re thinking — what the crap is wrong with the Apple Watch? I’m the Garmin, for those who don’t use one is on all the time. Like the screen never fades. The Apple watch when you twist it up, it lights up. I just did that and it just did that. Okay. It’s that millisecond of a pause and when you’re moving your arms already, it doesn’t always light up correctly. Okay. So it’s that like pause between twisting my arm up and it’s showing up that I cannot stand it drives me insane. Because I’m already working hard enough. I don’t need to worry about that. So I have got to have the thing that’s just on that I can glance at and not have to like hold my arm up like a psycho you know, although I am wearing two watches I guess that makes me crazy in a different way.


RB  41:08  

Yeah but the Garmin also has better battery life. That’s why I wear Garmins because that’s what I raced with for Ironman because it can last about 17 hours with light, Bluetooth, and all that. I have to have the Bluetooth on because it also connects to my bike.


AB  41:28

Can we go back in time and make the battery my answer?


RB  41:32

No, darn it. No editing this out, editing!


AB  41:35  

All right. All right. Okay, so final question. If you were going to close your eyes and imagine yourself thinking like you, have a great outdoor moment or just something that gives you peace. If you close your eyes and thought about that. You know what comes to mind, where are you and what are you doing? Describe it for us.


RB  41:52  

Well, we’ve come full circle and my eyes are closed, but any Iron Man that I’ve stood on the beach in that penguin looking wetsuit, the sound of the water, the feeling of it over your toes. And just the crispness in the air. So weird. It’s so like, invigorating to me. I think it’s also because I don’t like running in the heat because there’s no crispness, it’s just suffocating. But that crispness kind of puts the muscles on edge, and I know what’s coming, but it’s serene at the same time. This is gonna sound really weird and like super woowoo. But it’s still neat, Amy, I almost feel one with like myself and connected to the earth, almost like when you’re doing yoga, and you feel the power through your feet connecting to the ground or whatever part of the body. And that’s what I feel when I’m standing on the beach and I feel the water. Right before a race.


Amy Bushatz  42:45  

Rachel, thank you so much for being on the Humans Outside Podcast today.


RB  42:49  

Thank you for having me.

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